Comments on: “LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ: Gay Rights Movement or Alphabet Soup?” — by Eric Marcus http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/ Bringing our gay community together Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:16:35 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Carolyn Marie http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-176 Carolyn Marie Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:16:35 +0000 http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-176 I have been, in my own little right, a local "gay rights" leader. And the fight I've had to fight the most is not non-discrimination in laws and policies but actual non-discrminiation inside the movement. I have been told mutliple times by gays and lesbians that I need to *choose* to either be lesbian or straight. There is this assumption that because I'm in leadership in the movement, I must be lesbian. The mention of old boyfriends make many think it's all in the past. I'd hate to think the work I've done and will continue to do will be negated when I start dating a man. The only people I ever see bring up the question of the "alphabet soup" are gays and lesbians. I often see this along with a belittlement of bisexuals and the argument that gender identity isn't a winable battle right now and is an education issue (therefore the gay rights movement needs to focus on sexual orientation rights; we'll get to transgendered eventually. I have yet to see that happen). Or in an attempt to show gays and lesbians really are thinking about transgender rights, they hide gender identity protections inside the definition of sexual orientation in laws. While successful, it's very quite belittling. I understand the need for a concise word or phrase, but either bundling bisexuals and transgendered people up under the mighty flag of gay just doesn't do it. And it isn't my own desire to be recognized for myself; gays and lesbians have an ownership over gay that doesn't allow us into it. The rainbow flag of unity leaves me out because gays and lesbians want it. I hate the gay rights movement. I hate gay marriage. I hate gay pride. I hate all the things that try to use "gay" as all inclusive because people let that mentality leave out others. And that's not my fault. It's not straight people's fault. It's your fault. If you can't bother to explain it, of course they won't understand. http://gaykansas.blogspot.com/2008/11/mad-voter-exclusive.html I have been, in my own little right, a local “gay rights” leader. And the fight I’ve had to fight the most is not non-discrimination in laws and policies but actual non-discrminiation inside the movement. I have been told mutliple times by gays and lesbians that I need to *choose* to either be lesbian or straight. There is this assumption that because I’m in leadership in the movement, I must be lesbian. The mention of old boyfriends make many think it’s all in the past. I’d hate to think the work I’ve done and will continue to do will be negated when I start dating a man.

The only people I ever see bring up the question of the “alphabet soup” are gays and lesbians. I often see this along with a belittlement of bisexuals and the argument that gender identity isn’t a winable battle right now and is an education issue (therefore the gay rights movement needs to focus on sexual orientation rights; we’ll get to transgendered eventually. I have yet to see that happen). Or in an attempt to show gays and lesbians really are thinking about transgender rights, they hide gender identity protections inside the definition of sexual orientation in laws. While successful, it’s very quite belittling.

I understand the need for a concise word or phrase, but either bundling bisexuals and transgendered people up under the mighty flag of gay just doesn’t do it. And it isn’t my own desire to be recognized for myself; gays and lesbians have an ownership over gay that doesn’t allow us into it. The rainbow flag of unity leaves me out because gays and lesbians want it.

I hate the gay rights movement. I hate gay marriage. I hate gay pride. I hate all the things that try to use “gay” as all inclusive because people let that mentality leave out others. And that’s not my fault. It’s not straight people’s fault. It’s your fault. If you can’t bother to explain it, of course they won’t understand.

http://gaykansas.blogspot.com/2008/11/mad-voter-exclusive.html

]]> By: Stephen http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-166 Stephen Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:57:47 +0000 http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-166 Lauren, I'd like to say that as a gay male, I have looked at the transgender issue and thought to myself some of the same things. Its really hard to see how a movement of sexual equality and freedom could let "T-people" go by the wayside on so many things. I think though the problem stems from a lack of understanding... most of us love being the gender we are. Im a man that loves men, or Im a woman that loves women, we didnt have that need or feeling to change our sex to best suit our desires, and I think the idea of it makes some people uncomfortable. Untill we all realize that this movement isnt just to ensure that we have the rights as the next, but also to ensure that our brothers and sisters have the same rights as us, we will not fully come to a satisfactory place. Lauren, I’d like to say that as a gay male, I have looked at the transgender issue and thought to myself some of the same things. Its really hard to see how a movement of sexual equality and freedom could let “T-people” go by the wayside on so many things. I think though the problem stems from a lack of understanding… most of us love being the gender we are. Im a man that loves men, or Im a woman that loves women, we didnt have that need or feeling to change our sex to best suit our desires, and I think the idea of it makes some people uncomfortable. Untill we all realize that this movement isnt just to ensure that we have the rights as the next, but also to ensure that our brothers and sisters have the same rights as us, we will not fully come to a satisfactory place.

]]> By: Lauren http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-164 Lauren Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:34:29 +0000 http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-164 It AMAZES me how bigotry shows itself among gay and lesbian people the minute transgender people are brought up. First off, in nearly every case, TRANSGENDER PEOPLE ARE, OR HAVE BEEN LESBIAN OR GAY at some point in their lives. Think about it! They've either been gay/lesbian before transitioning, or after, in nearly every case. So, why is it so many of you want to exclude them from the same support you offer those who are easily defined as gay or lesbian? Hmmm, could it be the same reason hetero-society treats them like jokes and sexual-fetish items? Because they more obviously violate exactly the same taboo YOU violate -- you don't act like your gender is "supposed to" (i.e. you're supposed to love someone of the opposite sex), but YOU don't have to wear it on your face. And because they do, it embarrasses the bigoted among you who want to feel "normal". IT'S ALL ABOUT GENDER NORMS, and as I said, T-people are almost always, also G or L for much of their life. The only reason they are so dismissed by the gay and lesbian community is bigotry, pure ugly and simple as that! It AMAZES me how bigotry shows itself among gay and lesbian people the minute transgender people are brought up.
First off, in nearly every case, TRANSGENDER PEOPLE ARE, OR HAVE BEEN LESBIAN OR GAY at some point in their lives. Think about it! They’ve either been gay/lesbian before transitioning, or after, in nearly every case. So, why is it so many of you want to exclude them from the same support you offer those who are easily defined as gay or lesbian? Hmmm, could it be the same reason hetero-society treats them like jokes and sexual-fetish items? Because they more obviously violate exactly the same taboo YOU violate — you don’t act like your gender is “supposed to” (i.e. you’re supposed to love someone of the opposite sex), but YOU don’t have to wear it on your face. And because they do, it embarrasses the bigoted among you who want to feel “normal”. IT’S ALL ABOUT GENDER NORMS, and as I said, T-people are almost always, also G or L for much of their life. The only reason they are so dismissed by the gay and lesbian community is bigotry, pure ugly and simple as that!

]]> By: Shane http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-146 Shane Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:05:49 +0000 http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-146 I work in diversity issues at my office and this is one subject that continues to chafe my ass. I think T is enough (and I have to admit I sometimes wonder why the G, L, and B even belong with the T) and I'd like to beat whoever started saying LG instead of GL. I think the acronym was constructed somewhat based on numbers, lots of gay men, lots of lesbians but not as many as gay men, some bisexuals, and some transgender but not as many as bisexuals. That makes sense, right? :o) Anyway, if people continue to add letters and want to switch them all around because the Ls have some sort of complex over the Gs, then we are losing sight of what we really have to fight for - and then we lose completely. I work in diversity issues at my office and this is one subject that continues to chafe my ass. I think T is enough (and I have to admit I sometimes wonder why the G, L, and B even belong with the T) and I’d like to beat whoever started saying LG instead of GL. I think the acronym was constructed somewhat based on numbers, lots of gay men, lots of lesbians but not as many as gay men, some bisexuals, and some transgender but not as many as bisexuals. That makes sense, right? :o )
Anyway, if people continue to add letters and want to switch them all around because the Ls have some sort of complex over the Gs, then we are losing sight of what we really have to fight for – and then we lose completely.

]]> By: Casey http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-116 Casey Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:17:54 +0000 http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-116 Tina, I absolutely agree. I often think of my dearly departed friend, Quentin Crisp who, upon thinking about the whole GLBT moniker issue, would say this: "I am a gay male, thus to me it is GLBT. However, when push comes to shove, we are all Queer so, can't we simply all be "Q"?" He was such a precious being... Tina, I absolutely agree. I often think of my dearly departed friend, Quentin Crisp who, upon thinking about the whole GLBT moniker issue, would say this:
“I am a gay male, thus to me it is GLBT. However, when push comes to shove, we are all Queer so, can’t we simply all be “Q”?” He was such a precious being…

]]> By: Tina http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-115 Tina Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:51:31 +0000 http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-115 I don't have the answers either, but I found your blog while googling "gay rights movement, if we don't who will." While we've added many letters to the soup, it definitely seems to have lost some of its potency. I coordinate grassroots advocacy efforts for Marriage Equality USA and I often wonder where all of our LGBTQIA... are hiding out! I mean, it is great that we have some rights, but why have so many become so comfortable with second-class citizenship. Maybe the gay movement has fizzled because of this lack of an understood identity. I mean if we can't identify who we are, how will we ever identify what we are fighting for? I'm all for inclusion, but maybe we need one term for anyone under the rainbow. I don’t have the answers either, but I found your blog while googling “gay rights movement, if we don’t who will.” While we’ve added many letters to the soup, it definitely seems to have lost some of its potency. I coordinate grassroots advocacy efforts for Marriage Equality USA and I often wonder where all of our LGBTQIA… are hiding out! I mean, it is great that we have some rights, but why have so many become so comfortable with second-class citizenship. Maybe the gay movement has fizzled because of this lack of an understood identity. I mean if we can’t identify who we are, how will we ever identify what we are fighting for? I’m all for inclusion, but maybe we need one term for anyone under the rainbow.

]]> By: Keith Elston http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-98 Keith Elston Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:06:16 +0000 http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-98 I am in complete agreement with you, Mr. Marcus. I have squirmed many times over the past decade or so as this alphabetical mush has grown ever longer and more complicated. (I even saw a recent reference on a gay youth web site to LGBTQQA -- I'm assuming that the QQA part stands for Queer, Questioning and Allies, but I may be mistaken...) Pretty soon this obsession with assigning a letter to each of us will extend the name to an infinite amount of letters, for example, if you just add your initials and mine, we could have the LGBTQQAEMKE. Imagine how much fun it would be to sit your parents down and announce, Mom and Dad, I'm LGBTQQANGLTFHRCACLUMOUSE! I am in complete agreement with you, Mr. Marcus. I have squirmed many times over the past decade or so as this alphabetical mush has grown ever longer and more complicated. (I even saw a recent reference on a gay youth web site to LGBTQQA — I’m assuming that the QQA part stands for Queer, Questioning and Allies, but I may be mistaken…) Pretty soon this obsession with assigning a letter to each of us will extend the name to an infinite amount of letters, for example, if you just add your initials and mine, we could have the LGBTQQAEMKE. Imagine how much fun it would be to sit your parents down and announce, Mom and Dad, I’m LGBTQQANGLTFHRCACLUMOUSE!

]]> By: tom kane http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-82 tom kane Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:14:43 +0000 http://ourcommunitycalendar.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/%e2%80%9clgbtqrstuvwxyz-gay-rights-movement-or-alphabet-soup%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%94-by-eric-marcus/#comment-82 If we need to rearrange this, BGLT seems to alphabetically be fair to all. But, though i love the Queer part, it seems unnecessary with all that proceeds it. BGLT spells out queer clearly to all. Except perhaps to the B's---they possibly see themselves as either more enlightened or just lucky. Part of me would love to get rid of it all and just be a guy capable & hoping for love, but then I consider how I do love our culture and would despise losing that to assimilation. What would happen to "camp" if we integrate fully into the status quo? If we need to rearrange this, BGLT seems to alphabetically be fair to all. But, though i love the Queer part, it seems unnecessary with all that proceeds it. BGLT spells out queer clearly to all. Except perhaps to the B’s—they possibly see themselves as either more enlightened or just lucky. Part of me would love to get rid of it all and just be a guy capable & hoping for love, but then I consider how I do love our culture and would despise losing that to assimilation. What would happen to “camp” if we integrate fully into the status quo?

]]>